Should Mindanao Become An Independent Country?

[Thomas]

 

There is something called a Theocracy that I think applies here.  Islamic leaders may not be the government but they make the rules that their congregation must obey.  Seems similar to the Pope in Rome during the "Holy Roman Empire".  Not a government, but might as well be.

:89: ​Dave,  it has been a long time since school, but I think there are theocracies around now.  The Islamic State caliphate, Iran, and probably a few more. 

 

Won't Pakistan when first founded an Islamic theocracy?

 

European history isn't taught here but was Charlemagne the Holy Roman Emperor? Somewhere I have a notion that That empire was the last remnant or renovation of the western empire, comprising northern Italy and most of France and parts of Germany and Spain.  I'm unsure of this but was there an England then or was it still small kingdoms after Rome left? 

 

It was prior to the crusades?  

Something like that. CharleMagne had some more, at least Belgium too, because it was a part of the kingdom when he died and it was split between two sons   xxxxx   and Sigberet I. Sigberet was murdered probably at order of the WIFE of the other brother to make him emperor of whole, but it ended up with the wife of Sigberet managed to survive both herself and their small son and by revenge she killed both the brother, his wife and everyone who had supported them, and Brunhild became the most powerful woman ever inside Europe* during she ruled in their small son's name.  That Sigberet was the historic person behind "St Georg and the Dragon" story of some odd reason, it would have suit better to the history if Brunhild had been the hero :lol:

 

*England have had queens over more than that in the WORLD later, but not inside Europe.

 

The Romans left England much earlier than CharleMagne lived, but it was united later than he lived.

The crusades started around 1100.

 

An other ancestor of mine  :)  (at least all Europeans are related to all these kings, the hard part is finding the connection) is Vlad Tepes. Muslims Ottoman empire tried to conquere Europe around 1450, but he managed to stop them, scaring them puting head of muslim enemies at poles.  "As thanks"    :)   he became the historic person behind the litterature person "Count Dracula".

[Gratefuled]

 

Americans?  Wasn't it Spain that drew a circle around the islands and created a new country?

Yes. But either the Spainards or the Filipinos managed to beat the Mors,

it was the Americans.

 

The Spanish and the Crusaders drove the Moros (Muslims) out of southern Europe and back to north Africa. The Spanish drove the Muslims out of most of the Philippines down to where they are now and left them there. The Americans kept them there. The Filipinos have managed to keep them there. No, the Muslims never surrendered but they were beaten. Not once or twice but 3 times.

[Gerald Glatt]

managed to stop them, scaring them puting head of muslim enemies at poles.  "As thanks"

 

:thumbsup: I thought he put the heads on a pole by inserting though the persons bottom. Hence the name Vald the impaler, givinganother meaning of UP YOURS' 

[scott h]

With the world wide trend towards, religious, ethnic and cultural identification that has been prevalent in the last decade or so, I am afraid that if Mindanao got independence it would lead to the balkanization of the Philippines with all the different ethnic minorities etc. with all the different minorities that there are.

[Thomas]

 

 

Americans?  Wasn't it Spain that drew a circle around the islands and created a new country?

Yes. But either the Spainards or the Filipinos managed to beat the Mors,

it was the Americans.

 

The Spanish and the Crusaders drove the Moros (Muslims) out of southern Europe and back to north Africa. The Spanish drove the Muslims out of most of the Philippines down to where they are now and left them there. The Americans kept them there. The Filipinos have managed to keep them there. No, the Muslims never surrendered but they were beaten. Not once or twice but 3 times.

Well. Perhaps I better had said "Malay Muslims".

Many of the OTHERS, who were muslims back then, Spainards CONVERTED to christianity. That's not same as making them retreet..

I have read the "Malay muslims" DIDN'T lost the war against either the Spainards or the Filipinos, but LOST to the Americans. That's why they found it very wrong, when the American gave WHOLE to the Filipinos, when it stoped being an American colony.

 

At least that's how I have understood it   :)

[Jake]

With the world wide trend towards, religious, ethnic and cultural identification that has been prevalent in the last decade or so, I am afraid that if Mindanao got independence it would lead to the balkanization of the Philippines with all the different ethnic minorities etc. with all the different minorities that there are.

Which means I can't enter your ghetto zone and you can't enter mine, even if we're friends.  Again, a new world order, a new reality for our children.  Perhaps I should move in with the zombies -- at least they don't have any hidden agendas, pressure cookers, pipe bombs or AK-47's.  

 

Respectfully -- Jake, seriously worried for our European friends

[Old55]

With the world wide trend towards, religious, ethnic and cultural identification that has been prevalent in the last decade or so, I am afraid that if Mindanao got independence it would lead to the balkanization of the Philippines with all the different ethnic minorities etc. with all the different minorities that there are.

 

I agree with you Scott. Can so diverse a group of tribes, languages, religions and geographical separation learn to play nice with each other? So far not so much. 

Forum members have stated for the most part a strong man or dictatorship would be unable to hold the country together.

Perhaps the best thing would be for Filipinos to break up into several smaller groups that would have cohesion.

Or.

An outside entity rule directly or through proxy?  

[Jake]

I know the topic deals with Mindanao and now the discussions are related to global in nature, with ancient history lessons thrown in about conquerors trying to convert their cultural and religion by the sword.  

 

Fast forward to modern times and we're back to square one again.  I guess history repeat itself simply because we're all bad students that will never learn.  For example after WWII, the map (borders) of middle east were redrawn -- to the spoils of victory as well as to the losers being displaced.   

 

It would seem like the middle east was relatively stable under various dictatorships and royal families.  And now, it would seem like all hell is breaking loose.  Perhaps a more iron fist is needed in Mindanao?  

[Gratefuled]

 

 

 

Americans?  Wasn't it Spain that drew a circle around the islands and created a new country?

Yes. But either the Spainards or the Filipinos managed to beat the Mors,

it was the Americans.

 

The Spanish and the Crusaders drove the Moros (Muslims) out of southern Europe and back to north Africa. The Spanish drove the Muslims out of most of the Philippines down to where they are now and left them there. The Americans kept them there. The Filipinos have managed to keep them there. No, the Muslims never surrendered but they were beaten. Not once or twice but 3 times.

Well. Perhaps I better had said "Malay Muslims".

Many of the OTHERS, who were muslims back then, Spainards CONVERTED to christianity. That's not same as making them retreet..

I have read the "Malay muslims" DIDN'T lost the war against either the Spainards or the Filipinos, but LOST to the Americans. That's why they found it very wrong, when the American gave WHOLE to the Filipinos, when it stoped being an American colony.

 

At least that's how I have understood it   :)

 

Where did you read it or from who did you hear it? 

Since the Muslims were in the Philippines before the Spaniards, they tried to convert the natives to Islam. They failed. They just controlled them. The Spanish gave the natives Christianity, an education, a language, and a culture. 

The Muslims still control the non-Muslims in the ARMM region only. Non-Muslims are considered "infidels" and the Muslims either try to control them or kill them. So far, they  have failed in the rest of the Philippines. This is why they want the ARMM replaced by the BBL.

[Thomas]

 

 

 

 

Americans?  Wasn't it Spain that drew a circle around the islands and created a new country?

Yes. But either the Spainards or the Filipinos managed to beat the Mors,

it was the Americans.

 

The Spanish and the Crusaders drove the Moros (Muslims) out of southern Europe and back to north Africa. The Spanish drove the Muslims out of most of the Philippines down to where they are now and left them there. The Americans kept them there. The Filipinos have managed to keep them there. No, the Muslims never surrendered but they were beaten. Not once or twice but 3 times.

Well. Perhaps I better had said "Malay Muslims".

Many of the OTHERS, who were muslims back then, Spainards CONVERTED to christianity. That's not same as making them retreet..

I have read the "Malay muslims" DIDN'T lost the war against either the Spainards or the Filipinos, but LOST to the Americans. That's why they found it very wrong, when the American gave WHOLE to the Filipinos, when it stoped being an American colony.

 

At least that's how I have understood it   :)

 

Where did you read it or from who did you hear it? 

Since the Muslims were in the Philippines before the Spaniards, they tried to convert the natives to Islam. They failed. They just controlled them. The Spanish gave the natives Christianity, an education, a language, and a culture. 

The Muslims still control the non-Muslims in the ARMM region only. Non-Muslims are considered "infidels" and the Muslims either try to control them or kill them. So far, they  have failed in the rest of the Philippines. This is why they want the ARMM replaced by the BBL.

I don't remember where. It was several sources. The main was they claim they were only defeated by the Americans and they are angry, because the Americans gave whole to the Filipinos, when the Americans left.

 

Are you talking about the "mountain tribes", when you say the muslims didn't convert anyone?

The Philippines have a lot of ethnicities, which have live there very LONG time. (Ethnic groups moved from Taiwan, New Zealand. Malaysia...)