Should Mindanao Become An Independent Country?

[Gratefuled]

 

 

 

 

 

Americans?  Wasn't it Spain that drew a circle around the islands and created a new country?

Yes. But either the Spainards or the Filipinos managed to beat the Mors,

it was the Americans.

 

The Spanish and the Crusaders drove the Moros (Muslims) out of southern Europe and back to north Africa. The Spanish drove the Muslims out of most of the Philippines down to where they are now and left them there. The Americans kept them there. The Filipinos have managed to keep them there. No, the Muslims never surrendered but they were beaten. Not once or twice but 3 times.

Well. Perhaps I better had said "Malay Muslims".

Many of the OTHERS, who were muslims back then, Spainards CONVERTED to christianity. That's not same as making them retreet..

I have read the "Malay muslims" DIDN'T lost the war against either the Spainards or the Filipinos, but LOST to the Americans. That's why they found it very wrong, when the American gave WHOLE to the Filipinos, when it stoped being an American colony.

 

At least that's how I have understood it   :)

 

Where did you read it or from who did you hear it? 

Since the Muslims were in the Philippines before the Spaniards, they tried to convert the natives to Islam. They failed. They just controlled them. The Spanish gave the natives Christianity, an education, a language, and a culture. 

The Muslims still control the non-Muslims in the ARMM region only. Non-Muslims are considered "infidels" and the Muslims either try to control them or kill them. So far, they  have failed in the rest of the Philippines. This is why they want the ARMM replaced by the BBL.

I don't remember where. It was several sources. The main was they claim they were only defeated by the Americans and they are angry, because the Americans gave whole to the Filipinos, when the Americans left.

 

Are you talking about the "mountain tribes", when you say the muslims didn't convert anyone?

The Philippines have a lot of ethnicities, which have live there very LONG time. (Ethnic groups moved from Taiwan, New Zealand. Malaysia...) 

 

The Spanish defeated them too. This is how the Spanish came to chase them back to where they are now. The Americans gave the Philippines their independence, not once but twice. It is the Philippine government who chooses not to allow the Muslims to control more land. Most Filipinos are not Muslims. Most are Catholic, some are of different Christian denomination, then there are Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, etc.

I never said, the Muslims didn't convert anyone. I'm sure they must have. That's the way it's going to be if the BBL is approved. Convert or get out. Many non-Muslims have already left their homes and land after being pressured by Muslims. Extortion has a way of forcing people to obey or else.

By the way, Lapu Lapu was a Muslim who together with over a thousand natives massacred Magellan and some of his crew. I suppose this prompted Spain to send Legaspi to take care of the Muslims and we know by history that he did.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Gratefuled

[Thomas]

The Spanish defeated them too. This is how the Spanish came to chase them back to where they are now.

Well. Retreeting and being defeeted isn't the same   :)

 

I don't have any fanatic muslims, only kids in muslim-christian mixed mariages, among "My Spies" who tell me about local things in different parts of Phils, so I have only read they don't see it as they were defeeted by either Spainards or Filipinos,

but by Americans.

[Jake]

By the way, Lapu Lapu was a Muslim who together with over a thousand natives massacred Magellan and some of his crew. I suppose this prompted Spain to send Legaspi to take care of the Muslims and we know by history that he did.

 

Hey Gratefuled,

 

Another excellent history lesson about early Philippines.  I believe Magellan was unfortunate to hang around with the wrong crowd.  In that case, the wrong tribal chief who was trading swords and spears against Lapu Lapu's clan.  Otherwise, there would have been more mestizos/mestizas fathered by Magellan and his crew.....he, he.  

 

 

[Gratefuled]

 

The Spanish defeated them too. This is how the Spanish came to chase them back to where they are now.

Well. Retreeting and being defeeted isn't the same   :)

 

I don't have any fanatic muslims, only kids in muslim-christian mixed mariages, among "My Spies" who tell me about local things in different parts of Phils, so I have only read they don't see it as they were defeeted by either Spainards or Filipinos,

but by Americans.

 

If you put it that way, the Nationalist Chinese never surrendered to the Communists but they were defeated. That's why they are now in Taiwan ( retreated) and not mainland China. The Muslims just want to control more of the Philippines by terrorism. The people of the Philippines do not want the BBL or the ARMM. That is a fact not an opinion.

Everyone knows who is behind the BBL and they don't like it.

[Jack Peterson]

The people of the Philippines do not want the BBL or the ARMM. That is a fact not an opinion. Everyone knows who is behind the BBL and they don't like it.

 

 

aaaaaaaaah! but will it ever get to a vote of the People or just stay a vote in the Senate cos that is the Important thing 

 

Just asking EH!

 

JP

[Gratefuled]

 

The people of the Philippines do not want the BBL or the ARMM. That is a fact not an opinion. Everyone knows who is behind the BBL and they don't like it.

 

 

aaaaaaaaah! but will it ever get to a vote of the People or just stay a vote in the Senate cos that is the Important thing question-mark.jpg

 

Just asking EH!

 

JPwink.png

 

If the people were to vote, they would vote to dissolve the ARMM  and  dump the BBL. This is quite  obvious by their response.

[Jack Peterson]

.

If the people were to vote, they would vote to dissolve the ARMM  and  dump the BBL. This is quite  obvious by their response.

 

GF that is what I am asking, What Response, to what Question and by Whom? Because I don't see anything official from any source on the peoples views at all.

[Gratefuled]

.

If the people were to vote, they would vote to dissolve the ARMM  and  dump the BBL. This is quite  obvious by their response.

 

GF that is what I am asking, What Response, to what Question and by Whom? Because I don't see anything official from any source on the peoples views at all.

Jack, the people respond on the internet unanimously.  Just check out their response every time the subject comes up in the news. I believe the people do want a say in the matter and threaten to unseat those congressmen who vote to approve it. Some even threaten to hold President Aquino as a traitor by violating the constitution by giving away Philippine land to Muslim minority.

[Gratefuled]

 

The Spanish defeated them too. This is how the Spanish came to chase them back to where they are now.

Well. Retreeting and being defeeted isn't the same   :)

 

I don't have any fanatic muslims, only kids in muslim-christian mixed mariages, among "My Spies" who tell me about local things in different parts of Phils, so I have only read they don't see it as they were defeeted by either Spainards or Filipinos,

but by Americans.

 

If you are asking about a signed peace treaty, then no  but they were defeated. Many examples in history of defeats without surrendering. Remember The Alamo? Thousands of Mexicans fought a few hundred Texans and massacred them. Actually killed most of them but the Texans never surrendered.

General Custer never surrendered, either. Just 2 more examples.

[Jack Peterson]

 

.

If the people were to vote, they would vote to dissolve the ARMM  and  dump the BBL. This is quite  obvious by their response.

 

GF that is what I am asking, What Response, to what Question and by Whom? Because I don't see anything official from any source on the peoples views at all.

Jack, the people respond on the internet unanimously.  Just check out their response every time the subject comes up in the news. I believe the people do want a say in the matter and threaten to unseat those congressmen who vote to approve it. Some even threaten to hold President Aquino as a traitor by violating the constitution by giving away Philippine land to Muslim minority.

 

 If I believed all on the Internet I would believe that the UK were going to investigate the Internet Petition they say they will. No! For me I can only really go with the Hard core VOTE. It is the Ballot Box or it may be Fixed and even then the ballot box is known to have been tampered with Opinion Polls only Reflect those with an Opinion, not all.

 

JP :tiphat: