Maid to order? We have a dilemma!

[Jack Peterson]

15 minutes ago, nor cal mike said:

I am under the impression that entrapment can only be committed by a government official. 

England and Wales. Entrapment arises when a person is encouraged by someone in some official capacity to commit a crime. If entrapment occurred, then some prosecution evidence may be excluded as being unfair, or the proceedings may be discontinued altogether.

 To complicated to delve into but

Is it legal for a civilian to entrap another civilian?

No it's not legal. Entrapment is a defense to criminal charges, and it's based on interaction between police officers and the suspect prior to (or during) the alleged crime. A typical scenario arises when undercover officers use coercion and other overbearing tactics to induce someone to commit a crime

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-legal-for-a-civilian-to-entrap-another-civilian

To heavy for me on a saturday but in the main it is not legal (England & wales) It all stems from the Police but is well covered in the PACE Procedure Log  with regard to Civil Law

 

An act of civil entrapment and another of legal entrapment may each involve the temptation to commit a crime of the same type. We believe that it is useful not to restrict the notion of entrapment to cases in which the agent intends that a crime be committed by the target.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Civil+law+and+UK+entrapment&oq=Civil+law+and+UK+entrapment&aqs=chrome..69i57.8247j1j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 Whatever I would still not do it  

[OnMyWay]

10 minutes ago, nor cal mike said:

So I guess I shouldn’t even be interested in this topic as I have never had the need to use covert means to check on anyone.

Well, actually the topic was not started to discuss that in particular; just to get opinions on what to do in my situation, and that was one possible solution.

11 minutes ago, nor cal mike said:

My wife and I have successfully operated our farm year around for 10 years and we employ 3 full time employees and 2 part time. They have been with us for a number of years and we feel extremely fortunate to have them.

I would like to have long time loyal maid who stays for a number of years, without too much drama.  In the case of a 19 year old, I think she is young enough to influence in the right direction.  Unlike most of the older maids we have had who are very set in their ways.

My philosophy is to treat them well, and if their work is good, make them a member of the team, with some benefits that will encourage them to stay.  That sounds like what you have done.  I know that sometimes the employer might get burned, but I prefer to start out with that objective and a clean slate.

[nor cal mike]

1 hour ago, OnMyWay said:

Well, actually the topic was not started to discuss that in particular; just to get opinions on what to do in my situation, and that was one possible solution.

I would like to have long time loyal maid who stays for a number of years, without too much drama.  In the case of a 19 year old, I think she is young enough to influence in the right direction.  Unlike most of the older maids we have had who are very set in their ways.

My philosophy is to treat them well, and if their work is good, make them a member of the team, with some benefits that will encourage them to stay.  That sounds like what you have done.  I know that sometimes the employer might get burned, but I prefer to start out with that objective and a clean slate.

Sorry if I digressed from your point. I think you’re right. It all depends on attitude and a little good luck. I have found an abundant work force who are anxious to work and are trustworthy. 

[fillipino_wannabe]

2 hours ago, OnMyWay said:

I know that sometimes the employer might get burned.

Yes literally if yours decides to pour kerosene through the window and start a fire like mine did lol. I was the same as you before, treat them well, even let her borrow money all the time and paid for one of her family members funeral. Not worth the risk for me now though, seems to be a lot of examples of maids stealing etc on this thread.
I'll just wash the plates and do my washing myself now, getting a maid for 5k pesos per month seemed like a good deal before but they only actually do 30 minutes work per day anyway lol.

[Jack Peterson]

3 minutes ago, fillipino_wannabe said:

Yes literally if yours decides to pour kerosene through the window and start a fire like mine did

 Yep! Strange things can happen BUT if we can all learn from others mistakes we can maybe make Less ourselves  that's the usefulness of the Forum 

[Arizona Kid]

My housekeeper is my mother in-law. I "think" I'm safe..so far so good.

[intrepid]

1 hour ago, fillipino_wannabe said:

seems to be a lot of examples of maids stealing etc on this thread.

Okay, I've been following this from the start taking it all in.  I had no good advise to offer but this has been good reading for my future reference.  I really enjoy all the different opinions and strategies.  All that said I did want to respond the the above quote because when there are many negative examples I like to give see some balance in positive example.  At the time we have no house helper but out last one who was with us for about two years was in my opinion close to exceptional.  My wife had her opinion but no one can cook or clean as well as her,…so she says.  Now I must say I am forgetful and lazy at times with my belongings.  I am of the idea if I cannot leave some small things laying around then we don’t need someone around we cannot trust.  I did not use cameras, entrapment, bait, or anything the like.  More than once when our helper was washing clothes, she would come to me with cash in hand, (20s, 50, or even 100s) saying ,”Kuya, found this in you pockets.”  I would thank her and never give it a thought.  Sometimes she would also find some small amounts in our daughters school uniform I suppose leftover for lunches.  Now this helper was a very motivated 24 year old from a farm in the province and if her father didn’t want her home to help with other babies, she would hopefully still be with us.  For the money she would find in my pockets, I would tell my wife and noted if she would have kept it, I would have never known or would not have missed.  Call me careless I know but it happens.  Most of that money she found I put in a jar.  Before she returned to the province, and after paying her and also a small bonus, I got the jar out and explained what it was and gave it to her for being kind and honest with us.  She wasn't the best helper of all time but I would be the first to stand with her if ever her honesty was questioned.  There are some good honest ones around. 

Edited January 26, 2019 by intrepid

[OnMyWay]

41 minutes ago, intrepid said:

More than once when our helper was washing clothes, she would come to me with cash in hand, (20s, 50, or even 100s) saying ,”Kuya, found this in you pockets.” 

And ours has already done that too.  I like to put small change paper bills in my shirt pocket and sometimes I forget about it.  She returned some to my wife already.

[OnMyWay]

2 hours ago, fillipino_wannabe said:

but they only actually do 30 minutes work per day anyway

Not ours!  I actually want her to work less and take some decent breaks.  Most days she is not really taking a break.

She has bonded well with our 14 year old and last night they watched "Coco" together, and that was fine with me!

[Jack Peterson]

2 minutes ago, OnMyWay said:

Not ours!  I actually want her to work less and take some decent breaks. 

 Ours works like a split shift that suits all, say 5.30 to 1 then rest, then again from 4.30 to 8 sometimes, It really is all about give and take, as I say everyone is happy ( Well as happy as we can be)