Expat Whos Moved And Returned

[Thomas]

all sounds wonderful for you Thomas, its what you believe in that counts,

Well. Not much worth believing, if it can't be done   :)

but many don't try something, because they don't believe it's possible.

 

(I  (as single) have no problem living of 1000-1200 USD/month in Sweden, although only the heating costs of my house is over 6000 USD per year. IF building the house with good issolation in Phili, I expect cooling costs will be rather small.)

Edited January 28, 2013 by Thomas

[i am bob]

Steve, if you are married, you can go for the 13a Visa (and forget Visa runs).  Another option is to get the Balikbayan stamp and go year by year.even though this means you will have to leave once every year and come back.  The difference is that there are no extensions to pay for.

[GregZ]

 

do you put into your budget flights back home

 

That's an interesting question that I would really like to see Jim Sibbick's answer to.  He lives here on $800 a month and yet spends only a few months here then goes back to Australia for a few months.  How does he do it?  Unless, perhaps, plane fare is not included and some of his annual type payments are made in Australia so not included in his Philippine budget?  Just asking.

 

Married people may not worry about visa and plane tickets but those of us who have bi monthly tourist visas and annual visa runs have to account for those in our budgets.  They add up.

you say married people may not worry, why is that, i am married so what difference will that make for me,

 

will i not have to get the bi-monthly tourist visa and the annual visa too

 

 

Steve, if you are married, you can go for the 13a Visa (and forget Visa runs).  Another option is to get the Balikbayan stamp and go year by year.even though this means you will have to leave once every year and come back.  The difference is that there are no extensions to pay for.

Just so the budget has everything, you NEED 2 TICKETS... on the Balikbayan stamp YOU & WIFE have to come into the country TOGETHER each time.  Make sure you have your marriage certificate with you. :nudie: You can just go to Hong Kong or somewhere else though... not having to go to home country.

[stevewool]

 

 

do you put into your budget flights back home

 

That's an interesting question that I would really like to see Jim Sibbick's answer to.  He lives here on $800 a month and yet spends only a few months here then goes back to Australia for a few months.  How does he do it?  Unless, perhaps, plane fare is not included and some of his annual type payments are made in Australia so not included in his Philippine budget?  Just asking.

 

Married people may not worry about visa and plane tickets but those of us who have bi monthly tourist visas and annual visa runs have to account for those in our budgets.  They add up.

you say married people may not worry, why is that, i am married so what difference will that make for me,

 

will i not have to get the bi-monthly tourist visa and the annual visa too

 

 

>Steve, if you are married, you can go for the 13a Visa (and forget Visa runs).  Another option is to get the Balikbayan stamp and go year by year.even though this means you will have to leave once every year and come back.  The difference is that there are no extensions to pay for.

Just so the budget has everything, you NEED 2 TICKETS... on the Balikbayan stamp YOU & WIFE have to come into the country TOGETHER each time.  Make sure you have your marriage certificate with you. :nudie: You can just go to Hong Kong or somewhere else though... not having to go to home country.

 

on our last trip we got my passport stamped this way, so no fees that time, again lots of good information, thanks all

[relcarve25]

'Bruce', on 20 Jan 2013 - 16:34, said:

It all gets down to attitudes. Since 'you' look at everything from a western view and your logic and deductive reasoning AND your problem solving skills (should) be light years ahead of the average Pinoy..... it is easy to end up frustrated in your efforts to 'help and improve' things. This is where most westerners get angry and go home due to their views of the 'stupid' way things are done in Phils.

But if you can acceopt the Pinoy as he is and maybe offer some help without taking it personally when your ideas do not work, then you may have a future in Phils.

Attitude. If you think everyone around you is stupid... then you are doomed to fail.

With my charity efforts, I look 'stupid' right in the eyes every day. I can't change it on the wholesale level. ALL I can do is perhaps make things a 'little' better for an individual for a short time. Some food, some medicine and I pay some school fees. Not to produce a doctor or lawyer in the ends, but to maybe get through the 6th grade and being able to read and write and function at a basic level in their society. I compromise. I accept.

I accept that I can not change "them" and as such, I plan to stay for a long time..... Attitude! In reading posts... if you see a post like 'What a funny thing I saw today" as compared to "I saw a stupid A*****e try to build a wood wall that I could build in 2 hours and it took him 3 days!!!!!!!!!!! Well both posts may be about the same thing, but by differing attitudes of the viewer.

What the westerner sees is a long drawn out process to build a simple wall that should take 2 hours. What a Pinoy thinks is that I am paid 300p a day and I need to feed my family and I can work this wall for 3 days to get 900p to feed my family. So who is wrong? Attitude! Accept 'their' ways and be happy, or be critical and be angry all the time.

      Hi Bruce! I think this is a very important topic as it gets right to the core of things, It is refreshing to see people talking frankly about this issue. To be honest it is difficult to say exactly what you think about Filipinos and the Philippines as most foreigners who are 'genuine' in their interest for this unique country i.e. not the sex tourists and pervs, feel many different conflicts going on inside them all the time. Most foreigners start off their relationship with the country and it's people with a pretty idealistic frame of mind. Many of us have tried for a lot of years to help individual Filipinos and our spouse's family only to feel that our efforts have largely been wasted.

     My wife and I have helped with a lot of money and a lot of time for many years but there often comes a point when it becomes clear to you that this is not a 'quick fix' nor even helping for a few years- it is for life and even after that. I often think of the Philippines as a 'Black Hole.' You could pour all the money in the world into it and it would not be enough. I don't BLAME most Filipinos for this it is simply that their basic needs are so extreme that they will divert any help to whatever exigencies arise at the time.

     For example I tried to finance a 'piggery' for my family in Leyte. I researched everything very thoroughly and discussed everything at great length. I had to return to the UK but kept on sending the required 'start up' money for a year. I was sent photos to show piglets being produced and was assured that all was well. I calculated that after 1 year there should be 'X' number of pigs. Upon return to the Philippines after that year I found 2 pigs and 2 piglets! My first reaction, although I didn't say anything, was 'sod this for a lark'- what the hell have they done with the money. Of course you all know the answer. There was a genuine attempt to establish a piggery but there were constant demands for living necessities together with the need to respond to every barrio neighbour who wanted to 'BORROW' money.( Don't you hate the way Filipinos have redefined 'borrow' to mean 'GIVE-never to be paid back?) My mother in law, whilst a very good Christian person, was giving half the money away. In one sense she was 'buying her place in Heaven with our money but in another if she hadn't done this her neighbours would have spread a lot of vicious gossip about her being 'tihik'. She has to live in that tiny close knit community. Even though the system has broken down quite a lot it is still true that when she is desperate for help there will be some available - but maybe not if she in turn doesn't keep giving.

     But of course this is me trying to see things from their point of view. Unfortunately I think it is rare for Filipinos to look outside their desperate needs and see things from 'our' point of view. We all like to feel appreciated and local people always assume that foreigners have access to unlimited amounts of money back home. They neither understand nor care whether we can afford to help. I'm sorry to say it but it's my Black Hole again. No matter how much you try to help it is not enough and when you have to stop you become a 'bad person.' With the best will in the world you sometimes have to be a Saint to 'accept' everything you encounter. I'm an ordinary mortal and sometimes 'get pissed off!'  Chris McG.

[Bruce]

There is a very real learning curve. Either you adapt, go broke and return to your home country or become a bitter anti Phils kind of guy!

 

So after your learn that things do not change too much in Phils, you adapt your giving and use the word BUDGET a lot..... Most do understand that word.

[i am bob]

Lots of members on here have learned how to adapt so that they are happy residents in the Philippines.  In each case, it's up to the person to decide what will make them happy and set up accordingly.

[relcarve25]

Posted Today, 02:52 PM

There is a very real learning curve. Either you adapt, go broke and return to your home country or become a bitter anti Phils kind of guy!

 

So after your learn that things do not change too much in Phils, you adapt your giving and use the word BUDGET a lot..... Most do understand that word.

 

Posted Today, 03:28 PM

Lots of members on here have learned how to adapt so that they are happy residents in the Philippines.  In each case, it's up to the person to decide what will make them happy and set up accordingly.

     Good to hear your further views on the subject Bruce and Bob. Whilst I agree with almost everything you both say I do feel that there is a danger of being too simplistic about the 'Giving' question. For instance Bruce- Yes there is a real learning curve but in a way you make it sound like you quickly see how desperate many things are in the Philippines and realise that there is no end to the requests for help and you either adapt, go back and/or become very anti Philippines. I would suggest that I do not really fit into any of those fairly stark realities. Sure I learned the hard way like most others but after 23 years I have emerged wiser, still solvent and not at all bitter. Instead I have adopted a kind of humanitarian cynicism. I regard this as a successful outcome.

   I now know that most Filipinos who approach you have their own agenda- but I don't hate them for that. I have moved on and have learned to play the 'Trump Card.'  I know people will be disappointed if I don't give but I also know that they will not respect you if you just hand over largess like an idiot. They expect you to have doubts and so it becomes like a game. In Yorkshire, UK, where I live now I also learned the hard way that they wont respect a 'softie' who doesn't stand up for himself. What is MY trump card? - My wife, whom I believe to be more worldly wise and Filipino wise than most. One thing I do really dislike about Philippine society is the indoctrination almost all children are subjected to. It is usually twofold.

1.  The Catholic Church learned hundreds of years ago that if you 'get them when they're young you have them for life.'

2. Filipino parents bring up their children from birth to be their 'Pension Plan.' I think this is dreadfully unfair on their children who deserve to be able to make their own way in life without the enormous boulder of parental need hung around their necks. So many children are told that it is their duty and obligation to support their parents in old age and to sacrifice their own chances of happiness and family life to provide for the education of numerous siblings which their parents chose to bring into the world. 

   My wife has managed to break this indoctrination. She puts her 'nuclear family' first and prioritises what assistance she can give her extended family. I believe that this is rare. Many foreigners don't really understand the dreadful pressure their wives or partners are put under to favour their parents and siblings. I think I am very lucky and have managed to still love the Philippines and really like so many of the traits of the Filipino character. I also have great respect for the adaptability and survival skills of so many people there.  Do I belong to one of those 3 categories- yes- I have adapted- but not in the way that many do.  Chris McG..

[Bruce]

If it works for you, then go with it. If it doesn't, then make some changes. :cheersty:

[MacBubba]

One thing I do really dislike about Philippine society is the indoctrination almost all children are subjected to. It is usually twofold. 1. The Catholic Church learned hundreds of years ago that if you 'get them when they're young you have them for life.' 2. Filipino parents bring up their children from birth to be their 'Pension Plan.' I think this is dreadfully unfair on their children who deserve to be able to make their own way in life without the enormous boulder of parental need hung around their necks. So many children are told that it is their duty and obligation to support their parents in old age and to sacrifice their own chances of happiness and family life to provide for the education of numerous siblings which their parents chose to bring into the world.

 

I am glad that the statement was at least qualified as being true only for "almost all children".  I am certain that although that may be true for many, it is not a sweeping majority.  The fact that Filipinos look after their elders is cultural - it is done out of love and gratitude.  In the very traditional families, parents rear their children selflessly.  They do their utmost to raise their children in the best way they can, without expectation.  If at all possible, they will provide for their children well after they are gone.

 

I for one have been a recipient of this kind of generosity.  My mother-in-law helped us purchase our first home, our retirement home, and even our final resting place.  She and her husband and their forebears have made it possible for future generations to always have a place to call home.  My wife and her siblings have no plans of dividing up properties now that their mother is gone.  It will be passed down, the way their parents would have wanted it.